How to get into social media as a career - Emma King and Charlotte White | E14

B2B vs. B2B: the ultimate marketing showdown - Amy Shaw | E13 transcript

Charlotte White

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Talk too much, the Scaramanga Podcast. I'm Charlotte White, and I'm Scaramanga's Social Media Assistant.

Emma King

And I'm Emma King, the Social Media Manager at Scaramanga. And today we're going to talk about social media, how we got into social media and how to make a career out of social media, I suppose... shall I go as if I'm talking about my past experience, and then you can go into yours?

Charlotte White

Yeah.

Emma King

Basically we're gonna give you stories of how we got into social media. So it sort of helps people understand the pathway, because everyone's completely different.

I started with social media years and years ago, doing modelling and used it as like a networking tool, basically, and didn't really know loads about it, like algorithm wise and how to go viral, I was just doing what I'm doing and enjoyed doing it. And that was it. But I've always really loved it, always shared my life online. Some people hate it, some people love it.

And then I- many years down the line decided to work for a PR agency and sort of realised that digital marketing was something that I wanted to do. And I really enjoyed it and started the course. And then social media was a part of it, and then realised, actually, it was social media that I wanted to focus on, because I think people need to understand that digital marketing and social media is completely different. Social media is what it says on the tin, it is social media, whereas digital marketing is email marketing, it's you know, you can go into websites, you can obviously go into events and stuff like that. So it's a whole different spectrum, whereas social media is scheduling and coming up with content ideas, researching. Yeah, and I really enjoy it because obviously, the clients we get to work with so varied.

And so yeah, I was working in PR, got to work with some really inspirational people, and just realised that I didn't want to do digital marketing as a whole and just wanted to solely focus on social media. And yeah, just got more and more experience. Did a digital marketing level three course and graduated with a distinction.

Charlotte White

Woop!

Emma King

Woop woop! And, and yeah, I just realised it was my time to sort of move on. I feel like I'd learnt all that I could in PR. And PR is very, very different to a standard marketing agency as well, when there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. And I just felt like I needed a little bit of a change and then obviously found Scaramanga.

Charlotte White

Yeah, cause obviously, what I was gonna ask you was... I obviously know your background, because we've work together, but specifically, so everybody else knows, like, what, what accounts specifically do you have? Or what accounts did you run leading up to before you started at Scaramanga that essentially, like helped you get this job?

Emma King

So I have worked with... so obviously I've done my own stuff over the years. And then when I was at my PR agency I was working with, um, I've worked with the Met Police before, I've done a company called Staff Networks, a technology company, personal counsel, people who were influencers, or trying to break out into a certain industry. So, like, wellness was one that I focused on.

I also worked hands on with clients as well, like PR wise. So I think that helps, because you get to know your clients really, really well. And then obviously, that helps with social media. And then on the side, I've worked with people who have got restaurants. So creating content is something that I think is probably one of my favourite things. I'm a creative person. I'm dyslexic, so I think that's a major factor. Yeah, so I think a wide range. Obviously events as well I've done, award events. So some of mine are B2B, some minor B2C. So really, yeah...

Charlotte White

That probably helps as well though, I reckon right? Like having all that.

Emma King

Yeah, like getting a wide experience different... different B2C and B2B marketing... yeah, it's, they're very, very different. Especially when it comes to how to plan your content and what your strategy is, they're quite different.

Charlotte White

Massively, massively. And back to what you were saying before about like, I appreciate, like, the pathway that you that you took to get into it. But for me, like, I took a very different pathway. I didn't have any experience working within agency or PR or digital marketing, or anything like that. I... I freelanced my way into a job somehow, somehow!

So I started running accounts last year. I ran one for my grandma funnily enough, she's a therapist, and we started sharing like videos of her on TikTok um, and she got, she got a good following. And I basically went from there. So I feel like our paths were really, really, really different. But, but neither is- neither is wrong, both are valid, but it just shows that there's, there's so many different ways that you can break into it. But I always think for me, I think the essential thing is to be able to show is that you can do it no matter what form you do it in, whether it's within agency, or whether it's... you freelance your way to like 50,000 followers or XYZ, you just, I think, have to be able to show that you can connect with people and pull in a audience, you know?

Emma King

Yeah, and I think it's really important, like, I feel like both of us are really passionate outside of work about it. So I think that's a massive thing. My- that's what- I'm always doing something to do social media and sometimes, obviously, that can be a bad thing, it can be slightly addictive. But I think if you've got a passion for something, the best advice I would probably give to somebody is just play around with social media. You know, if your friend is starting up a small company, you want to help them do social media or approach someone that's got a small business and work on it. And learn, you know, when to post or what the best content is. Algorithm, learn all those things. Because actually, even though I've done my course, I've got to be really honest, it was a waste of time, surprisingly, because I basically taught myself because the course that I done I just wasn't very happy with, I wasn't impressed with, I don't feel like I've got the right support. I didn't get to... most of my experience was free work, and doing it myself, everything else was just written for them.

So if you're thinking of getting into social media, doesn't mean you need a course to prove that you can do your job,

Charlotte White

Yeah that's so true.

Emma King

The most important thing and the thing that's helped me is my portfolio. Is showing the engagement increases, the following increase, increase in sales, all that got me to where I am now.

Charlotte White

Yeah.

Emma King

You can go into an agency and say, Look, I've passed my digital marketing course or social media course. And they're gonna say, right, so what can you do then? What have you done? And they're gonna look and go errr... you haven't got anything?

Charlotte White

Yeah, yeah. And I guess that comes back as well, to what- it comes full circle to what we were just saying that you need to have the numbers.

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

I think that's the biggest thing for me, because... I don't know about you, but I get asked quite frequently how I got into it and I'll occasionally get messages on LinkedIn asking me how I got my job. Because it's quite a sought after job role I feel, in this day and age, just with the, the landscape of digital marketing. But that is the honest and sometimes quite harsh truth that I feel like people often don't want to hear. That you have to prove that you can do it that you have to prove that you can build a following. It doesn't matter what for, it doesn't matter if it's for yourself or if it's for someone else, or a small company or a big company, or B2B or B2C, you just have to be able to prove that you can do it. Just as I guess with any job, though, I mean, you can't go to the Olympics without showing that you can like...

Emma King

(Laughter)

Charlotte White

...do a flip or something. You can't go compete in the Olympic Gymnastics if you can't do a flip, do you know what I mean? It's just like, you have to be able to show what you can do. But I think, to be honest, I think sometimes people don't- don't want to hear that.

Emma King

Yeah. And I think- I know what answer I'm gonna give so I'm going to ask you the question, and then I'll answer it, is: why do you think people really want to get into social media? Or why do you think people are so interested?

Charlotte White

I... often think, people think it's easy.

Emma King

That's my answer. Yeah, people think it's easy, and it's like a bit glamorous.

Charlotte White

I think people think it's easy and yeah, and glamorous. I do agree. But it's definitely... it's definitely not easy. I would say it's difficult because it is quite a new environment. It's quite a new like division of working. And it's a lot of unknowns. And it's- and it changes so much and it changes so fast that your job role six months prior could be totally different to what it would then be six months down the line. So I don't think it's easy. I think a lot of people do want to do it because they think it's easy, but if it was easy, everybody would be pulling- everybody would be influencers, everybody would have millions of followers if it was easy.

And I guess that would also bring me on to the... how influencer culture is and what people perceive it to be. I think we have an image of influencers, that they have like an easy, an easy ride with the job that they've made for themselves. But I think that element also comes into it. I think that what they're doing is not actually as easy as it seems. And it's all very well, for everybody else to sit there and say, "well, that's easy, what you do just sit and film yourself", but it's not because they came up with the strategy that got them 100k, 200k, 300k, and in the most sincere way possible, like a lot of people that that deem it to easy, have not tried to do that themselves. And don't know if they can do that themselves. So yeah, I know, I know what you mean, I want to hear your answer on it as well, obviously.

Emma King

No, I'm exactly the same. I think people think it's really easy. They think that they just upload a photo or a Reel and that's it. Hashtag it, and away you go and it's really not. And like, when you talk about the influencer stuff, I've done that side of it. And what you gotta remember is there isn't a team of people behind that. They are literally a photographer, a videographer and editor, a makeup artist, you know, a director. You've got to do all of that, you got to get the right shot. And it's a lot of pressure, because you're not just getting sent some free goodies, you're putting on basically a performance to show the products and you've got to do it well. Don't do it, well, you're not gonna get another deal, you're not gonna get paid.

Charlotte White

Yeah.

Emma King

It's a lot of pressure. I know it is. But I feel like I've had really lovely stuff gifted over the years, but you still got to film it well, it's got to be well lit, it's got to be quiet. And you've got to give the audience sort of like a experience and a journey through why you're using the product. And I think the style has changed over the years, whereas before it'd be like "I use this, this is how I use it" whereas I think now it's more like, people will naturally talk in a video about something and someone might come and say "oh, where's your skincare product from?". Or they'll prove that they've got like a problem maybe with their skin, and then they will naturally talk about something, and then they will use it and "but oh, I use this". So that it's like a soft sell instead of a hard sell. And say "you need to buy this. This is what it does." It's like a natural progression in the video. It's not like a forced sales pitch.

Charlotte White

Yeah.

Emma King

That's how I feel.

Charlotte White

Yeah. Well, people don't want to be sold to nowadays I feel like and I guess that is an entirely, entirely different discussion.

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

But like, from what you were saying it made me, like, the analogy I thought of in my head was kind of like- I feel like selling on social media, and influencer marketing, it's kind of like modern day.... entrepreneurship almost?

Emma King

Yeah. It's like being your own business person.

Charlotte White

Yeah. Maybe entrepreneurship's not quite right because that is obviously slightly different. But it's- it's modern day sales. It's not, it's not sitting at a desk of a with a landline phone and calling people up and trying to sell, sell the product that you're trying to sell it's, it's just moved with the times. It's the modern version of that. And I do think we forget that as well. When we think about influencer culture and everything.

Emma King

But I think when going into social media is whole, I think it's really important if you know your niche. So for instance, if you're really, really interested in fashion, you know that's your passion and you know you're good at it, stick to it. Because when you go into an agency, depending on what your agency's gonna be. Bit like ours, we've got a variety of clients.

Charlotte White

Yeah we do.

Emma King

You know, and that's like how it was before for me. I'd work with someone in events, and then it'd be a tech company. And, you know, you're not going to enjoy every single one of your clients like obviously tech, you know, I'm not a tech wizard. So I've got to learn everything about the tech world, I've got to completely fall into the company and really learn about what they do and their beliefs. And because when you're writing content, when you're writing copywriting, obviously, it's got to be authentic, it's got to sound like them. So you basically have to throw yourself in as if you're part of that company. So I think if you've got a niche, you know, you can freelance and you can really work it, go for it. Grab it by the horns and go for it! If you want to work in an agency, because you want that stability and you also want to learn B2B and B2C, then you just got to be flexible.

Yeah and I think that's a really good piece of advice for agency as well, that I think you need to be ready for agency and you need to have an open mind. And I think when you apply for social media jobs in agency, you need to be able to show them that you have an open mind to being able to promote different things. Because to be honest, like when I, when I got my job here, I had a bit of experience. And I built, I built one account up to a really decent following. And the other two pieces of experience that I had were, were slightly different. So the big following was around therapy. And then- so it was kind of like selling a service, but my other two pieces of... what, I've completely forgotten the word! Of... experience, experience!

Haha!

Charlotte White

So my other two pieces of experience, were selling soap pillowcases. And then another one was more like influence type like, she wanted help to almost be an influencer in that sense. But I didn't have any B2B experience. And we work in a B2B agency (predominantly). So as much as we've just sat here and said, like, oh, you need to show that you have the experience, you do. But it's more in terms of you need to show them that you have your finger on the pulse of what's going on in the- in the landscape. And you need to at least be able to understand how to, like, capture people's attention and emotions and imagination. And that way, you'll then be able to convert it into, into agency.

But I think also, Scaramanga is really good at is like- we're at two different completely paths in our lives.

We are, yeah!

Emma King

So like, you're... not being rude, but you're young, you're in your 20s, like, you don't have a family, you know, you're just starting out really, like, a career that could go absolutely anywhere. Whereas I'm in my mid 30s, I've got a family, I've gone through so many different jobs, and it's not in a bad way. It's just I've fallen into these jobs and really enjoyed my time and then realised that I need to progress to something else. So I think that... the agency probably looked at you, seen right, you know, you're young, you've got a different- you see, you might watch and look at stuff differently than I do. And it's also wanting to keep your talent and you know, sort of train you along the way, really see what you want to do. Because you're at this time in your life where you can go along for a couple of years in the agency, and then realise, actually, you know what, there's a really good niche that I want to stick to. And I think it is- it could be therapy, it could be, you know, content creation for restaurants, or fashion or beauty, whatever it is. But I think that's about learning what you enjoy and what you like.

And you know, you just never know, or you can end up here for years, because you really are really, really good at liaising with clients, and realising that there's somewhere to progress in the company. And that was my main thing with Scaramanga was I said, "look, I want to know that I can progress". Because... I'm in my 30s. I don't want to keep changing my job, I want to know that I've got job security, and that I like working with my clients and that I'm trusted and, you know, where- we liaise with clients, but they also trust us to not absolutely sign absolutely everything off, which you know, most of them do. So that's quite nice. So yeah, I think it's just about discovering really what you want to do and getting as much experience as possible.

Charlotte White

Yeah. And I think, from what you were saying, as well, like, you've had more experience in the past that I have. And you've had that experience in digital marketing. And I guess in an almost paradoxical way, like, you went into digital marketing, and then realised that social media was your niche. And then I also think working in B2B in a way, can be your niche as well, like your niche can be to be able to juggle a few different clients at once that you're kind of devoted to within within your agency. But I mean, I took- I took my job, because I, you know, haven't had that much experience. And I wanted to learn with an agency. I can't say for sure if I will stay in agency forever. I love Scaramanga. Genuinely love Scaramanga, it's been so brilliant so far.

Emma King

I paid her to say that!

Charlotte White

Ah, but I don't, you just don't know where you're going to end up. But the reason I wanted to go in agency was to see if I was capable of juggling more than a few accounts at once, like, we juggle quite a few between us and getting experience from that. So I think it really just... coming back I guess to our overall question, like our overall topic of "how do you get into social media?" I think it's... once you're able to show that you can pull the numbers

Emma King

Yeah, find your passion. Find your niche that you want to-

Charlotte White

Within your niche.

Emma King

Yeah, that you want to stick to and just get as much experience and like you say, get the numbers.

Charlotte White

Get the experience that you can. It doesn't have to be... um, all, like, dead professional, because I did most of mine for my family. So you can- you have to kind of like sometimes create opportunity for yourself. But you know, you secure those opportunities, you pull the numbers, you gain the audience, and then you make a really nice little portfolio. And then you get a job in agency. But I would also say that the other thing I would add is, sometimes we kind of have a romantic idea in our head of like the job that will, that we're looking for.

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

Because I think when I started searching, I obviously was thinking of the large companies with the, you know, way over the top offices and the hundreds of employees are working on these huge, huge projects, which is great. But I then realised that- I let myself be a bit more open minded to kind of working in any sort of agency and at least giving myself the opportunity to go and speak to different types of companies to then see, and then realise that actually, it was much better for me to take- to try and get a job in a in a smaller agency where I could really get a good amount of support, which I do, to try out- to be able to try out new things, which I'm allowed to, which is lovely. And just get a bit more hands on I feel like than I would have done it a big agency. So I think my other advice, my other piece of advice would be, by all means, if you want to shoot for the stars, shoot for the stars, but I also think it's worth considering looking at the companies that kind of doing a really good job in the in the background of the others that are in the limelight all the time.

Emma King

Yeah, I think going off that is a piece of advice of how also not to be taken advantage of. Because one of the biggest things and I see on LinkedIn all the time, and I've experienced it myself is that when you know how to do more than one thing, a company can be like, "oh, well, you know, Emma can do that, or just get her to do that" when actually it's not in your job remit. Like at the moment, my job is Social Media Manager. That means I come up with content ideas, I schedule content, you know, I go to the meetings when we're pitching. And... it's not doing email marketing research and all the stuff that a client manager would do, its not constantly creating content all the time. It's not overdoing the analytical side of it. Obviously, I do do analytics, but not to the extent of like a digital marketing side. I don't do websites, I'm not in the background, editing them constantly. I have access, obviously to them here because, you know if someone's not here, and I want to edit something, obviously.

But I think it's really finding that limit on what you will and won't do under your title.

Charlotte White

Hmm, that's so true.

Emma King

And having a job spec that outlines exactly what you are to do so that people just don't take the mick out of you, basically, because you can earn a lot of money in social media. And I think if you're being asked to do something else that's not in your job spec, then that needs to reflect in your pay.

Charlotte White

Yeah. And I think that actually just reminded me of what we were talking about a little while ago. One of our previous colleagues went on to a job that is a lot more just totally managerial.

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

As in literally telling people this needs to be posted this time. And then within that, they write all the copy and schedule all the posts and XYZ. So I think it's that as well, I think you have to kind of decide if you're going to be more of a content creation guru, or if you're going to take a bit more of a managerial role. Because they are different and that- that's not actually something I realised before I started working in agency like, but I say that on the vein of what you just said, because to expect... for a job to expect you to be able to do all the managerial and all the content creation. For like, if they're if they're trying to get you to do all that and they're offering you like, I don't know, like 25 grand a year, sorry, but that's just not enough money.

Emma King

No.

Charlotte White

Like it's just not. High stake managers alone for other jobs will get plus 40 grand.

Emma King

Yeah, yeah.

Charlotte White

So...

Emma King

Yeah I see those advertised all the time and what my bug bear is like when they don't put the wage or they put the wage really low and they go, "I want you to do analytic reports, email marketing, scheduling, content creation, copyright hashtag strategy, duh duh duh," a list of all these long things. "We also want you to know how to run five different social media platforms. Plus, we want you to have five years plus experience in all of them. But we're only going to offer you 22".

Charlotte White

I know.

Emma King

Why in the world, would you would you do that? And they'll go, "oh, this is an intern position". Or "this is like a..." what is it? After like you graduate. Like your first sort of, um...

Charlotte White

Ah, just like a graduate role.

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

Yeah, yeah.

Emma King

They'll put it as a graduate role. No, that's not a grad- graduate role.

Charlotte White

No,

Emma King

That's literally...

Charlotte White

No it's not!

Emma King

Getting the most out of your money out of someone. And this long list of stuff that, I can tell you now, is impossible to juggle because all of them are a different skill.

Charlotte White

Yeah.

Emma King

They really are, like, someone who creates content can't necessarily write copy and can't necessarily write emails.

Charlotte White

Yeah. Yeah. And I think as well, like, you've just made me think as well about how... I think, in more recent years, I see it more with the freelancers. But I think, in agency, people have their own strengths, too. But in terms of the different platforms, I think a lot more social media workers, if you like, are starting to hone down on what platforms they are more capable with. Because you can be capable with them all, but you can't be like, all knowing about all of them.

I agree with you. Yeah, I agree with you.

I think you and me like, I know you're, you're you're a bit more all knowing about Instagram than I am, I would say.

Emma King

Aw!

Charlotte White

But hopefully, we've no offence to you at all, I might be a bit more all knowing about TikTok

Emma King

Yeah I was just about to say that, yeah!

Charlotte White

Just based on my experience. Yeah. So I think when you're looking for roles as well, it's okay to kind of differentiate your strengths in that way. Because I think a lot of even even in our agency, even our clients, I don't know if any single one of our clients, we run all the socials for, because they don't have them all. They'll have like three.

Yeah, I think the most I've got is four.

Yeah.

Emma King

But most of the time it is three.

Charlotte White

Yeah, like even they don't have all and that says all you need to know like, if all of our clients had all the social media platforms, we would be inundated. It's- it's too much work, because each social platform needs a different amount and a different approach to consideration. But yeah, I just think that it's okay to in that way, hone down and be like," I'm a Social Media Manager, I'm capable in everything, but I'm a I'm a real star at TikTok" or "I really excel at Instagram".

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

Because that also comes into you know, what's trending, because right now Instagram, TikTok are trending, they're by far the larger platforms. And although like Facebook still has a big audience, and so does X and... LinkedIn has a big audience to kind of more just cruising nicely, you know, like, they're not, they're not the trending thing right now. So all the all the more to say it's okay to say that you're, you're proficient in some more than others. I think that is, I think that is a big misconception as well.

Emma King

Yeah, I think is 100% true. And I want to know a lot more about TikTok now, just because of how big it is, how it's such a search engine and everybody loves platform and gets lost in it. And I think, you know, everyone says how bad social media is, but there's such a good side to it. And I've seen lots of that. But yeah, I know 100% agree with you. So yeah, I think our top advice would be...

Charlotte White

To summarise!

Emma King

To summarise.

Charlotte White

(Laughter)

Emma King

Find out what you enjoy. Find your niche. Get as much experience off your own back and really learn if it's something that you want to do before jumping straight into an agency. Get your numbers, put your portfolio together, find an agency that interests you, you feel that will be supportive, and don't take that undercut wage for that long list of duties. And if, you know, you could along the way find that you're really good at it on your own and you don't need an agency and that you flourish as a self-employed person. All the more for it.

Charlotte White

I mean, good for them to be honest. Because it couldn't be me right now at this time in my life, like, I enjoy agency. You remember...? ahh, what you said then made me think of another piece of advice. Oh, get LinkedIn!

Emma King

Yes. Oh, my goodness!

Charlotte White

Get LinkedIn! That's the other piece of advice.

Emma King

Everyone always says like, it's like professional, it's a bit boring. But no, it's literally the best platform at the moment. It's for- professional side of it. LinkedIn is the place to be. It's the best place to network.

Charlotte White

Yeah

Emma King

I think.

Charlotte White

It's great.

Emma King

Yeah. And it's also one of the biggest platforms for learning how to do B2B marketing as well.

Charlotte White

Yeah, and the memes are great.

Emma King

(Laughter)

Charlotte White

There's memes there, guys. I didn't know that before I got LinkedIn. I got LinkedIn about two weeks before I came from my first interview here, and I had 4 connections

Ah you're gonna say this so proudly, it's on your face, of how many you've got now.

Yeah, I've got like, 700 plus followers now.

Emma King

You're above me I think now!

Charlotte White

Uh, I know, but I'm just addicted, I just love like adding people in my field. But honestly, like, I've, aside from the all the professional side of it as well, I've made friends off LinkedIn.

Yeah, and there's so many opportunities there and the people who share- so I learned a lot through LinkedIn, because they'll share, like, the topics of the week or what's been trending or where to find like the best hooks, and just loads of resources are on there. So 100%, I would say be on LinkedIn, and start there and you know, professional photo always. We've actually got a video coming out soon on how to make sure that your LinkedIn is professional, and people can see you. So make sure to follow us on socials for that.

Ah, good plug. We're not the social media team if we don't plug the Scaramanga socials in the podcast!

Emma King

(Laughter)

Charlotte White

What are the handles? It's all- it's all @scaramanga_agency, isn't it?

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

Yeah, there we go. And they got a good amount of continuity to them. So...

Emma King

Yeah, and if anybody has any questions or anything that we want to touch on that topic-wise, feel free to comment or message us.

Charlotte White

Oh yes shoot us a message! Message us on... what are we on? Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok... Facebook. Actually, we are pretty much on all of them which is funny what we just spoke about LinkedIn. But yeah, well, we hope you enjoyed listening to us ramble today. I'm sure we'll be back for another episode soon. We do have lots of ideas for episodes we want to do.

Emma King

Yeah.

Charlotte White

But we'll also take requests whenever they come in. So anything you want to know about digital marketing, social media, let us know. And we'll see you in the next episode.