Steering relationships on the road to marketing success - Claire Scaramanga

Steering relationships on the road to marketing success - Claire Scaramanga and Emma King transcript

[Upbeat intro music]

Emma King:

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Scaramanga podcast. My name is Emma and I'm the Social Media Manager at Scaramanga Marketing. In this episode, I'm joined by the one and only Claire Scaramanga, who is the Client Services Director of Scaramanga. Welcome Claire.

Claire Scaramanga:

Good afternoon. Thank you very much.

Emma King:

I think this is the first time I'm interviewing you actually.

Claire Scaramanga

It is. I'm scared!

[Laughter]

Emma King

I'm not that scary. I promise. Today we're actually going to be talking about client services, like your role, networking and really finding out what it takes to achieve a great working relationship with clients and what your role involves overall.

So if you wouldn't mind just giving everyone like a synopsis of yourself and Scaramanga?

Claire Scaramanga

Yeah.

So I've worked in marketing all my career, but I did fall into it a little bit by accident. Having started off as a linguist really, did a languages degree, which is my regret I've never used in my working life. And yeah, my first job after after graduating was in marketing.

I started in-house, worked with Unipart Group and then went agency side. And when I finished my MBA, I had a brief period with a dot com startup in 2000. And then when that whole bubble burst, I started up Scaramanga Marketing, which is... it'll be 25 years next year that we've been going. Yeah.

So I sort of said as well as my MBA, I did the Chartered Institute of Marketing postgraduate diploma in marketing. And I'm a fellow of the CIM and also did my NLP master practitioner, which was very interesting.

So yeah, as I said, we've been going for 25 years nearly. And we've sort of found our niche, I would say. We specialise in marketing for companies that are providing business to business services. And I think we have a particular specialism in complex services.

So we've got clients sort of in the whole enforcement, legal, business, energy, IT to mention just a few, most of whom we work with on a retainer basis. And we manage all of their marketing. That might be anything from content creation, writing, videos, blogs, or things like that, digital, email and social media is a large part of what we do, as you know!

[Laughter]

And I think one of the things that's been sort of quite an important factor of the way we work is that we've built some very long term relationships with our clients. In fact, our longest standing relationship is 15 years, which has been wonderful to work with and develop and see that company grow.

Emma King

You realise what an achievement it is to be going for that long as a marketing company, especially with COVID? So, you deserve a pat on the back, definitely! And I think it falls nicely into our first question, which would be, what exactly does your role involve?

Claire Scaramanga

I think when looking after a small business, you do a lot of different things. You wear a lot of different hats and some of them more comfortably than others. There are some parts, the 'admin-y' bits, that I'm not so keen on, but I'd say probably my role falls into sort of three main areas.

So obviously managing the business, so managing the agency, the things you'd expect there, you know, HR and financing and trying to help on IT and that side of things. So some of the hats I'm not so keen on! But probably the two parts that are more important for me and that I enjoy more are looking after clients and then also new business side of things.

So I am very hands-on with clients, with client work, obviously planning, strategic development side of things, but also a lot of implementation. I need both. I enjoy both. So I like putting the plans together, but I like seeing them come to fruition, not just being one or the other. And I always have a number of projects on the go. So doing that a lot with clients and I don't go to all client meetings, but I go to a lot of the client meetings and I enjoy the interaction and the coming up with ideas and that side of things. So I very much enjoy that part of work.

And I also probably lead on the new business side. We're not really big enough to have a specialist biz dev person, so that's one of my hats. Obviously working a lot with you and the rest of the social media team and Amy on the marketing side with promoting us on social media and our websites and these podcasts.

And I also do an awful lot of networking, which I find is a really good way of getting to meet people. I'm an active member of London Chamber of Commerce and I also attend quite a few other, maybe slightly smaller, more, you know, one person per business profession networking groups. But I'm very chuffed that I applied to one of the City London livery companies in April, the Worshipful Company of Marketors. And I've just been admitted. So I'm excited about that.

Emma King

Yeah, you should be. I think with all the different hats and roles that you do, how do you create a great working relationship with a client?

Claire Scaramanga

I think there are a number of factors. I think one that's, and this isn't necessarily in order of priority, just in order of how they come to me, but I think it's really important and this is something that we focus on a lot, is getting to know the client's business well.

You know, we're working with companies that are selling services and it's a slightly different way of marketing a business when it's a service business. You need to build that interest and awareness and confidence and trust in the prospective customer for the client that you're working with.

So we do find that we're creating a lot of quite technical content and we need to put the investment into learning about the business and the sector and the industry to be able to do that. And we do that very successfully with a lot of our clients. And we find quite quickly that the amends that we get from content that we create, the number of amends reduces to the minimum quite quickly because of that investment.

So with our enforcement clients, for example, there's a lot of legislation around that, as you'd expect, and I've actually done the legislation that they're managed under, the taking control of good regulations. And our client develops training in that area and they run a level two course and a level three. And I've done both of those. ...So I could become a Certificated Enforcement Agent! I'm not sure that's quite where my future career lies!

[Laughter}

But I could if I wanted to. So, yes, I think that that technical detail is quite important.

I also think it's important if you're going to build a relationship of whatever kind, but particularly in business, that there's trust that underpins all of that. And I think my main focus in building that trust with clients is to base it on the fact that we as an agency are only successful when our clients are successful. So our remit and our whole focus is on making our clients successful. And that's what drives our success.

So that is a longer term view. It's about giving best practice and advice, making decisions that are in the 100% in the best interest of the clients. And so that's a very important part.

We also spend time to try and get to know the wider team in our clients and build a rapport with them. I've always been a strong believer that every employee in a business is part of the marketing team. We all have a part to play, whether it's talking to people on the phone or, in whatever way it is, we're all marketing the business. So I like to get the whole wider team in our clients organisation involved and knowing what we're doing so that they can come with ideas and feedback and suggestions.

Emma King

It helps me with content creation because normally I'm pushing them in front of the camera and they don't like it.

[Laughter]

Claire Scaramanga

Hmm, I can understand why! But anyway, I think, you know, there are other things, there are things that might be seen as hygiene factors, but, you know, it's about always producing work of very high standard and doing things on time and, you know, keeping to commitments and promises. But I suppose, so, yeah, so getting to know the clients business, building that trust, talking to the wider team and engaging with them, working to high standards, but really at the end of the day, most importantly, it's about delivering results.

Emma King

Yeah. That's good. I think something else that you're really good at and which we actually did some training on the other day was grasping how to have your meetings and how to present the information to the client because every client is different.

So for instance, Red Door, who was our client Mark, we know that he likes facts and figures and likes us to be upfront with things, whereas you could go to another client who just isn't bothered about that part of it.

Claire Scaramanga

Yeah.

Emma King

So, and I can't remember the training that we do, the name of it.

Claire Scaramanga

Yeah, it's adapting your styles and understanding other people's styles and being able to be adaptive.

Emma King

Yeah. And I think you're really, really good at that. And what would you say is your top tip for securing a client?

Claire Scaramanga

I think doing your research and really clearly demonstrating that you want to win the business and that you've put the effort in and you've understood them and you've understood what their pain points are and their challenges and also their opportunities and that you can show how... how we, Scaramanga, can show how we can make them successful and optimise those opportunities and address those challenges.

And I think it's also important to, rather than assuming that they know you want to work with them, just tell them that you're really interested and excited at the possibility of working with them. You know, if you're excited about their business, they're going to believe that you are excited about making them successful.

Emma King

Yeah. Very, very true.

And I've learnt a lot from working with you since December, and working with clients and going to meetings and seeing how you present and your style.

And I know what my answer to this question would be, but I want to know what your answer would be, which is what is the number one question you should ask a potential client?

Claire Scaramanga

So my number one question would be, and it's a very open question, but it's what does success look like for you?

And I ask that question because it will make the person think really quite think about. So it's 'not what do you want doing?' It's 'what does the end result look like?' Because I think part of our skill, if you like, and part of our remit is to map that journey from here to there. But if you don't know what their looks like, it you know, you can you can go wrong. So yeah, what does success look like look like for you? And then that clarifies everyone's minds and can help them put the right journey in place.

So what would your question be?

Emma King

Mine was going to be 'what would your target audience be?' Just because without that information, you don't know who you're targeting or your demographic and really knowing your audience, I suppose.

Claire Scaramanga

Yeah.

Emma King

So they go sort of hand in hand to be honest!

I think a topic that would be good to cover is something we recently talked about as a team. And it's what should someone do if they feel a client is not totally satisfied?

Claire Scaramanga

Well, I mean, this is obviously a totally theoretical question!

[Laughter]

Emma King

Yes, absolutely.

[Laughter]

Claire Scaramanga

But seriously, I think it's important to keep checking in to do regular reviews for the client, make sure that you know, that you're giving an opportunity for feedback and that you're addressing that feedback.

I think open and honest dialogue is important in any relationship, but particularly in a business relationship. And by having those sort of reviews and asking questions, you can make sure that everybody is on the same page and that there's no ambiguity around what's been agreed.

I think the... any sort of issues most commonly arise from a mismatch of expectations or misunderstandings.

Emma King

Yeah.

Claire Scaramanga

When someone's expecting one thing and the other. So person A, has gone out of a meeting expecting that what's been agreed is X and the other person thinks it's Y.

Emma King

Yeah.

Claire Scaramanga

And so I always make a point of, when particularly when a debate has been had and the discussion has been had and it's been quite involved of actually before moving on to the next topic on the agenda is just clarifying exactly what has been agreed.

Emma King

Yeah.

Claire Scaramanga

So that everyone if there are any misunderstandings or misperceptions that they're picked up there and then. And I think that's that's quite important. And I think, you know, it's about listening and being aware and reading body language and just listening and then identifying any potential dissatisfaction.

I mean, sometimes people are just having a bad day and it's nothing to do with what you're doing at all. But thinking if there is something under the surface, just bringing it out into the open. It won't go away on its own generally. But bring it out into the open and have an open and frank conversation. Talk it out. Work out what needs to be done and then put things in place to change anything if it needs to be done.

And then having done it, obviously then checking back saying, you know, 'you asked us to do this. We've done it. Is that what you were after? Has it resolved the issues?' But yeah. Open and honest conversations are always important.

Emma King

Yeah. And I think clients appreciate when you take the initiative, probably to take that step forward, to bring it up first and say, right, this is... 'what's the issue? Is there one? How we can move forward?' So I think that's really important.

And we know, obviously, you've done a lot of networking over the years. But how important is networking and what have you personally got out of it over the years?

Claire Scaramanga

Yeah. So I mentioned at the beginning that we're obviously selling a service and services by their nature are intangible. Nobody knows what they're going to get until they've experienced it. And that can be quite stressful to make a commitment to something that you can't experience before.

You can't test drive the service. You can test drive a car and you can know if it does what you want it to do. But with a service, any service, there's a certain element of leap of faith.

So, you know, you can market a product by putting a post out on social or putting an email out saying 'we've got these widgets. Do you want to buy one? Special offer, 10% off?' It's such fundamentally different marketing from product marketing. And I think that you need to build that confidence and that trust and that relationship.

So that's why I find networking is a very important part of that. Because you're not necessarily networking with the people who are going to buy from you. You're more likely to be networking from people who are going to recommend you.

Emma King

Yeah.

Claire Scaramanga

So we had a client meeting this morning. The client had had a requirement for some quite specialist spreadsheet development in Excel. And through my networking, I know someone who lives and breathes spreadsheet development. And the client is so happy with the work he's done because the caliber of his service is amazing.

So that's why I do the networking so that people get to know me, get to understand what we do. And hopefully I am able to communicate that I do know a fair bit about marketing. And so that when someone comes to them and says, 'do you know anyone specialising in B2B services marketing?', they'll go, yes, I know just the person to refer you to.

So that's why I do it. I think for what we do, it's one of the most effective routes.

Emma King

Yeah. You always know someone that knows someone that knows someone!

[Laughter]

And I did networking not long ago for the first time on my own. And it was, oh my gosh, it was very intimidating. But I suppose, I assume it's got easier for you now, through time?

Claire Scaramanga

Yeah. I still find walking into, sometimes walking into a room of people where I don't know anyone, it's daunting. But I put my hat on, my proverbial metaphorical networking hat on and go, I'm here to play a part. And I play that part and I find that helps.

Emma King

That's a good way to look at it. I'm going to try that next time.

My next question, which is actually something I'm really interested to hear about, what has been your favourite marketing moment since starting Scaramanga?

Claire Scaramanga

Gosh, that's, there's a lot of years to think about that! I think probably, I started working with the Sheriff's Office 15 years ago. They're a high court enforcement company. And they have big ambitions to grow. And I'm really thrilled that we are a large part of helping them achieve that ambition to grow.

And because in, I think it was late 2015, they started talking to one of the largest companies in their sector, High Court Enforcement Group. And they were acquired by HCE Group. And one of the things that HCE Group were very interested in was how we'd marketed the Sheriff's Office and how we'd built that brand and that reputation and that very high level of awareness. And
they wanted us to do that for them as well. And so we do work for them. And they have two other companies in their group, Excel Civil Enforcement, who work with local authorities and the National Eviction Team, who manage high profile, protester evictions. All very interesting areas of business. And it's brilliant that we work with all four companies within the group.

And I think within the Sheriff's Office stuff, one of the things that I most enjoyed doing was we'd been working a lot on marketing them to solicitors, to the property market, to landlords. And we wanted to reach the general public more, but certainly didn't have large advertising budgets to do that. And this was during the credit crunch when the whole debate was around debt being a challenge for debtors, which undoubtedly it is. But it's also a very significant challenge for creditors. And as an owner of a small business, I appreciate that as well. And we wanted to shift the dialogue slightly.

So I pulled up a list of production companies and went and pitched to all of them. And we had a TV show commissioned by the BBC, which was The Sheriffs are Coming, which ran for eight years. It was a brilliant program.

Emma King

I used to love that show!

Claire Scaramanga

And it not only won a broadcasting award, but it also had 31 million viewers, which is almost half the population of the country. So yeah, that was a, I think that's probably my favourite marketing moment!

Emma King

That's a good marketing moment. And I run the socials for group and I have to say I've learned quite a bit. And obviously I do research and write the copy. So, and I've learned a lot from the clients and it is really interesting. And there's new stuff coming through all the time.

But I also nearly became an enforcement officer years ago. So I also do generally find it really interesting.

And I think our closing question for you is what advice would you give to someone wanting to work in marketing?

Claire Scaramanga

Well, I spent my whole career in marketing. I'm not going to say how long that is, but it's been a couple of years!

I think it's a brilliant profession. It's changed enormously since I started. Although I think the fundamental underlying principles of marketing, which is, you know as we said earlier about understanding your audience, knowing your market, knowing your uniqueness on your proposition really well, that hasn't changed.

But the way you reach customers and the way you communicate with them, it's changed, it used to be a send, you know... the brand put their message out to the consumer and it's so fundamentally different now.

But there's so much diversity, so many different areas to specialise in. I mean, I think if you're starting in marketing, it's good to learn a few and not to specialise too early. Because I think if you have an appreciation of other media and how you can reach people, you understand how they all fit together.

But I think it's a really varied, interesting, challenging career that never stands still. And I think particularly if you work in an agency, which most of my career has been, I love the variety of all the different clients and the different projects. I think if you thrive on variety and change and spinning multiple plates in the air, it's a brilliant profession. If you're not into that, you might
find it a little bit stressful.

But yeah, so as I said, I think, yeah, start broader, then specialise. But I think fundamentally at the end of the day, always remember it's about having the right message to the right audience at the right time.

Emma King

Well, there you go. Heard it yourself! So if you're wanting to get into marketing, and you want to learn more about your audience and what makes good marketing campaign, make sure to listen to this podcast. And thank you for taking the time out to come on the Scaramanga podcast!

And thank you to everyone listening. And make sure you check out our previous episodes and sign up for our newsletter to stay up to date with the news, our clients and our latest podcast episodes.

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